The Great Debate

Here goes:1

Trump:  Punitive taxes on companies that leave the USA.  He talks about jobs leaving the country- specifically calls out the Ford plant going to Mexico, the desolation of Michigan and Ohio.2  Says he’ll cut business taxes from 35% to 15%.

Hillary- quoting Trump for cheering on the housing collapse.  Wants to build renewable power grid.  Says his tax cuts help those already doing great- like his family.

Trump is busy accusing Clinton of not addressing trade for thirty years…3 Says the housing collapse was just good business.4

Clinton is referencing growth in the 90’s and trade growth as Secretary, and talking about how real people lost jobs and homes in the collapse he profited from.

Trump is proposing a 20% drop in business taxes- says it will create jobs.  Now he’s on about cutting regulations.

Hillary is pimping a fact-checker on her website.

Trump just said Hillary has been fighting ISIS her entire adult life.

Trump says he’s cutting taxes for the wealthy so they can create jobs.5  He wants to cut taxes so the wealthy can bring bring their money back into the country.  Supposedly, the wealthy don’t have enough money in this country to invest in the ghetto.

Clinton says he’s creating tax cuts for people like his family.  She’s talking about how trickle-down has failed.  Pumping money into the middle class.  She then talks about the minimum wage.6

Trump is attacking the Fed for keeping interest rates low.

Mr Holt is going after Trump on his tax returns.  Trump is falling back to his audit status,7  He’s bragging about making $694,000,000.8  Holt hit back about the IRS saying he’s free to release them whenever he wants.  Trump hits back on 33,000 ‘deleted’ e-mails.

Clinton:  Everyone for 40 years has released their taxes.  She’s asking- is he as rich or as charitable as he claims?  Or is it because he pays no taxes?  “Zero for vets, zero for troops, zero for schools…”  She’s hammering that he must have something to hide.  What hidden conflicts would he have as President?

She owns the e-mail situation!  “It was a mistake.”9

Trump:  “I’m extremely under-leveraged” “Our airports are like a 3rd-world country.”  He’s talking about infrastructure investment.10

Clinton hits back- maybe we’ve got such a big deficit because you pay no taxes.  Now she’s hitting on the small people he’s stiffed- including one in the audience!  Now she’s hitting on his 6 bankruptcies.  “What’s good for business is not good for government.”

Now he’s bragging about his company.  He says he merely takes advantage of the existing laws.  He’s using the stage as an ad for his new hotel.

Holt:  Let’s talk about race.

Clinton: Race still determines too much- neighborhoods, schools, justice.  We need to restore trust, train police, and encourage mutual respect.  Good police want to reform, as well.  Now she’s on to blathering about guns- “Plague of gun violence.”

Trump:  “Law and Order.”  He’s been endorsed by the Fraternal Order of Police.  “Minorities are living in hell.”  “Stop and Frisk” Transitions to illegal immigrant gangs.  “Our police are too afraid to do anything.”

Holt: “Stop and frisk has been ruled unconstitutional profiling.”1112

Trump:  “So?  We need it.”

Trump sighs when Clinton starts to reply.

Clinton:  Stop and frisk is both unconstitutional and ineffective.  Too many minorities end up in prison for non-violent offenses.  Minorities are more likely to be imprisoned for the same crimes as whites.  She wants to end private prisons.13   Then she gets stupid about “military-style weapons”.  She also gets stupid about banning people on watch lists from owning guns.14

Trump agrees with watch-lists,15 then brings up Clinton’s ‘superpredators’.  He then doubles down on stop and frisk.  Clinton responds that crime has continue to fall in New York after it was ended.

Trump hits Clinton for staying home- she hits back, saying she was prepping for debate.  She also says she’s actually prepped to be President.16

Holt hits Trump on 5 years of birther-ism.  He’s trying to say Clinton was responsible for it.  He says he’s the one that got him to present the birth certificate.  Holt hits back- why did he continue to dispute it after he had the certificate then.

On racial healing:  He’s met lots of black people in the last few weeks.17

Clinton:  He continued on as a birther in a nod to his racist base.  Then she hits him on getting sued for housing discrimination- his history of discrimination.

Trump: “I’m rubber, you’re glue.”  He’s bragging because he settled the law suit with ‘no admission of guilt.’18

Holt:  Securing America- Cyber Warfare

Clinton: talking about Russian attacks and The Donald’s praise of Putin.  “We will not permit state actors to conduct cyber warfare- we have solemn and powerful tools we could turn against them.”  She talks about Trump inviting the Russians to hack U.S. citizens.

Trump:  He’s been endorsed by I.C.E..  Makes fun of ‘fat geek’ trope.  He’s hitting back on what was done to Bernie Sanders and disclosed by hackers.  He claims that ISIS has more expertise than the U.S. on cyber warfare / defense.

Clinton:  We need to do more on the internet against ISIS.  We also need to hit them militarily.  She touts her experience via Bin Laden.19

Trump: Clinton and Obama allowed ISIS to form.  We should have left 10,000 troops in Iraq.  ‘We should have taken the the oil.’20

Clinton is hitting back- Trump supported both Iraq and Libya.  And oh yea- Bush signed the withdrawal from Iraq.  We need to work more closely with allies to gather intel.  She talks about Trump insulting Muslims and other allies that hurts our ability to cooperate.

Trump: “We’ve been working with them for years, and look at this mess.”  He thinks NATO members should be paying their fair share21  He thinks his criticism is a driving factor in NATO decisions- they decided to create a terrorism task force!  He’s now repeating the his falsehood regarding the Iraq withdrawal.22  He’s going hard against his original position in favor of invasion.  Then he admits it, but says he was kidding.23  It’s a media conspiracy.  He wants Sean Hannity as a character witness.  He’s now talking about how he has a better temperament and judgment.

Clinton:  NATO- Article 5- an attack on one is an attack on all.  The only time it’s been invoked was in defense of us after 9/11.  She’s touting her sanctions package for Iran to prevent them from getting nukes.  She hits him on responding to Twitter taunts. and his ‘cavalier’ attitude regarding nuclear proliferation.  “A man who can be taunted through a tweet should not have access to the nuclear codes.”24

Trump: Our allies should be paying for our protection.25  He’s now hitting her on stuff that happened after she left office.

Clinton:  “Words matter when you run for President.”  She reaffirms that we will honor our mutual defense treaties.  Our allies have to have faith in our word.  Donald never tells us what he would have done- start a war?  It’s all like his ISIS plan- ‘a secret’.  He really doesn’t have one.

Trump:  We cannot be the policemen of the world.26

Holt:  What did you mean by “She doesn’t have the Presidential look”?

Trump:  I don’t believe Hillary has the stamina.

Clinton:  “When he can visit 112 countries / testify in front of Congress for 11 hours, he can talk to me about stamina.”27

Clinton: Hitting him hard on his misogyny.  28  Mentions a beauty pageant contestant he referred to as ‘Miss Piggy’, who is in attendance. Mentions his comment that pregnancy is an inconvenience to businesses.

Trump is patting himself on the back for not saying something disgusting about her and her family.  He’s talking about how her ads are falsehoods.29



I took these notes in real time.  I apologize for any inaccuracies- please point them out and I will note and update them.

I’ve tried to go back and pull out any of my thoughts as side notes.  I said on Facebook that I thought the debate went 10-7 in favor of Clinton if we’re scoring a boxing match.

She reads as someone that is prepared to step in and lead the country from ‘Day One’.  The ultimate evidence of this was her looking straight into the camera, and reassuring our allies abroad that we will live up to our treaties.  It was done as if she were currently President, not merely in the running.  I’m not saying she’d lead us the way I want to go, but she is certainly capable of doing the job.

Trump tried to repeatedly hit on a perceived lack of results in her record, but I wanted to ask this:  “Mr. Trump, what have you done, as a billionaire, to better our country or world?  Many of your business decisions have hurt thousands of citizens over the years, but your charity seems to be a farce, you pay few or no taxes, and you don’t contribute to outside charity.  Have you ever met Bill Gates?”30

Clinton gets dinged for

  • Minimum Wage as a solution
  • Gun rights

Trump gets dinged for

  • Trade policy that was relevant in 1977
  • Stop-and-frisk
  • Taxes
  • Frequency of outright falsehoods

Hillary won the zingers by a count of 3-1.

Trump sounded like the guy on a call-in sports talk show.  He knows how to run the offense better than those coaches!  Why can’t that guy just make his free throws!  He’s a professional, damn it!

At the end of the night, I’m less scared of Trump, but more scared of the people that though he won the debate.

I also have an interesting theory.  Trump isn’t a Republican, and he’s not really running for Republican votes.  He’s really a billionaire New York playboy that is pandering to the old Blue Dog Democrats who were abandoned around the time of the ACA.  That is his base.  Some are racist, but almost all of them are disaffected white folks that have been abandoned by both Republicans and Democrats.

It’s the only way I can explain the fact the fact that he’s pimping huge government solutions, and his base is lapping it up.  His answer to everything is more spending and more government,31 except when it comes to college, training, etc.  More coal power, more construction jobs, etc.

I’m sure there’s more to unpack here, but I’ll save that for another day.






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